Comments on: Roger Schank and the Tyranny of Grades http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/06/roger-schank-and-the-tyranny-of-grades/ Musings about Academic Technology Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:30:30 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.3 hourly 1 By: how to get good grades? http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/06/roger-schank-and-the-tyranny-of-grades/comment-page-1/#comment-1229 how to get good grades? Sat, 02 Oct 2010 10:43:44 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=7#comment-1229 hi,<br><br>great dude.....i like you conversation with Roger Schank. hi,

great dude…..i like you conversation with Roger Schank.

]]> By: Traveller_Adventure http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/06/roger-schank-and-the-tyranny-of-grades/comment-page-1/#comment-1083 Traveller_Adventure Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:59:31 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=7#comment-1083 This is quite impressive, I am pleased to read this post, keep posts like this coming, you totally rock!<br>Cheers,<br><a href="the-review.info/" rel="nofollow">Blog Review</a> This is quite impressive, I am pleased to read this post, keep posts like this coming, you totally rock!
Cheers,
Blog Review

]]> By: The End in Mind » Woz on Learning Motivation http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/06/roger-schank-and-the-tyranny-of-grades/comment-page-1/#comment-41 The End in Mind » Woz on Learning Motivation Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:17:53 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=7#comment-41 [...] make them learn will largely be in vain. Consequently, teachers and learning technologists need to (as Roger Schank has argued) create the conditions for successful learning by tapping into intrinsic motives, allowing them to [...] [...] make them learn will largely be in vain. Consequently, teachers and learning technologists need to (as Roger Schank has argued) create the conditions for successful learning by tapping into intrinsic motives, allowing them to [...]

]]> By: The End in Mind » The Re-Organization of School http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/06/roger-schank-and-the-tyranny-of-grades/comment-page-1/#comment-37 The End in Mind » The Re-Organization of School Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:38:04 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=7#comment-37 [...] case you missed it, you might want to check out my review of Schank’s Lectures: “Roger Schank & the Tyranny of Grades.” addthis_url = 'http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jonmott.com%2Fblog%2F%3Fp%3D16'; addthis_title = [...] [...] case you missed it, you might want to check out my review of Schank’s Lectures: “Roger Schank & the Tyranny of Grades.” addthis_url = ‘http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jonmott.com%2Fblog%2F%3Fp%3D16′; addthis_title = [...]

]]> By: Kyle Mathews http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/06/roger-schank-and-the-tyranny-of-grades/comment-page-1/#comment-29 Kyle Mathews Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:34:50 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=7#comment-29 I ran across an interesting blog post discussing the perverse incentives of grades. She summarized some research from Alfie Kohn that grades have three main effects on students. * Grades tend to reduce student interest in learning. * Grades tend to reduce students' preferences for engaging in challenging tasks. * Grades tend to reduce the quality of students' thinking. She then applies these findings to the question of how to encourage use of social software in organizations. "Many of us are struggling with ways to encourage the use of social media in the workplace [or the classroom]. As we think through our incentive plans, we might want to keep in mind Kohn's research on external motivators and find ways to appeal to people's intrinsic needs." From watching students/professors use social learning tools, I think it's best to not tie grades closely to student's participation as for many students grades are off putting. Incentives for participation must exist but they should be internal and "soft", not external and hard (participate or fail) (see http://blog.hbs.edu/faculty/amcafee/index.php/faculty_amcafee_v3/whats_most_important_for_success_with_enterprise_20/). Both the original blog and the article she summarizes are excellent. http://michelemartin.typepad.com/thebambooprojectblog//2008/06/de-grading-the.html http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/fdtd-g.htm I ran across an interesting blog post discussing the perverse incentives of grades. She summarized some research from Alfie Kohn that grades have three main effects on students.

* Grades tend to reduce student interest in learning.

* Grades tend to reduce students’ preferences for engaging in challenging tasks.

* Grades tend to reduce the quality of students’ thinking.

She then applies these findings to the question of how to encourage use of social software in organizations.

“Many of us are struggling with ways to encourage the use of social media in the workplace [or the classroom]. As we think through our incentive plans, we might want to keep in mind Kohn’s research on external motivators and find ways to appeal to people’s intrinsic needs.”

From watching students/professors use social learning tools, I think it’s best to not tie grades closely to student’s participation as for many students grades are off putting. Incentives for participation must exist but they should be internal and “soft”, not external and hard (participate or fail) (see http://blog.hbs.edu/faculty/amcafee/index.php/faculty_amcafee_v3/whats_most_important_for_success_with_enterprise_20/).

Both the original blog and the article she summarizes are excellent.
http://michelemartin.typepad.com/thebambooprojectblog//2008/06/de-grading-the.html
http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/fdtd-g.htm

]]> By: Kevin Reeve http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/06/roger-schank-and-the-tyranny-of-grades/comment-page-1/#comment-28 Kevin Reeve Sun, 22 Jun 2008 03:27:33 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=7#comment-28 Thanks for the summary on Roger Schank. I went through a graduate program in Instructional Technology and never heard his name mentioned once. I met him at a corporate e-learning conference and really liked what he had to say. I have several of his books and they a fun to read. Thanks for the summary on Roger Schank. I went through a graduate program in Instructional Technology and never heard his name mentioned once. I met him at a corporate e-learning conference and really liked what he had to say. I have several of his books and they a fun to read.

]]> By: Michael Johnson http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/06/roger-schank-and-the-tyranny-of-grades/comment-page-1/#comment-19 Michael Johnson Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:46:31 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=7#comment-19 Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Schank's visit. You did a great job of summarizing and share some significant reflections. It seems to me that one of the key take aways is that we usually talk about aligning learning outcomes with learning activities with assessment. It seems as though Schank might say, why align they should just all three be the same thing. There were ideas of going from simple to more complex and implied recursiveness in what we help students learn. But in addition to that we should be asking ourselves "So what?" about everything we propose to teach or include in the learning experience. We should seek from the students what they are interested in. We should also seek out what is needed in the fields they wish to go into (which we gather from professionals in those fields, etc.) rather than just theorizing what is needed and teaching impractical courses. I like the idea of a story-based curriculum. I don't think that we should throw the baby out with the bath water either (to use a cliche). I agree with many of his ideas regarding what is wrong with the whole idea of courses and grades, etc. I have many more thoughts on this, but I will constrain myself. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Schank’s visit. You did a great job of summarizing and share some significant reflections. It seems to me that one of the key take aways is that we usually talk about aligning learning outcomes with learning activities with assessment. It seems as though Schank might say, why align they should just all three be the same thing. There were ideas of going from simple to more complex and implied recursiveness in what we help students learn. But in addition to that we should be asking ourselves “So what?” about everything we propose to teach or include in the learning experience. We should seek from the students what they are interested in. We should also seek out what is needed in the fields they wish to go into (which we gather from professionals in those fields, etc.) rather than just theorizing what is needed and teaching impractical courses.
I like the idea of a story-based curriculum. I don’t think that we should throw the baby out with the bath water either (to use a cliche). I agree with many of his ideas regarding what is wrong with the whole idea of courses and grades, etc.
I have many more thoughts on this, but I will constrain myself.

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