Comments on: When the Lining of the Cloud ISN’T Silver . . . http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/11/when-the-lining-of-the-cloud-isnt-silver/ Musings about Academic Technology Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:30:30 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.3 hourly 1 By: jonmott http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/11/when-the-lining-of-the-cloud-isnt-silver/comment-page-1/#comment-1064 jonmott Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:44:01 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=36#comment-1064 Glen, Great to have the perspective from someone who lives in the clouds, as it were. I think you raise valid points. Sustainable business models are critical--even for big companies like Google. They can't give *everything* away forever, right? And staying involved from a user-perspective is essential too. I hope things are going well with your venture? Glen, Great to have the perspective from someone who lives in the clouds, as it were. I think you raise valid points. Sustainable business models are critical–even for big companies like Google. They can't give *everything* away forever, right? And staying involved from a user-perspective is essential too. I hope things are going well with your venture?

]]> By: Glen Moriarty http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/11/when-the-lining-of-the-cloud-isnt-silver/comment-page-1/#comment-1063 Glen Moriarty Sat, 03 Jan 2009 15:38:29 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=36#comment-1063 Jon, I think this is a really valid point and I think developers and educators both play a role in making sure that this doesn't happen in the future. First, developers have to create sustainable business models that will grow in difficult economic times. They have to balance the free 'web 2.0' models with the 37signals type business models; or said differently, they need to find a careful balance between free and premium accounts. Second, educators have to be partners and understand the economics behind running a web-based learning application. Developers have to have an open dialog about this on company blogs and in other circles, so that educators can be informed and understand the different dynamics. e.g., why it is helpful for people to purchase premium account, b/c it helps subsidize the free accounts. Jon, I think this is a really valid point and I think developers and educators both play a role in making sure that this doesn't happen in the future. First, developers have to create sustainable business models that will grow in difficult economic times. They have to balance the free 'web 2.0' models with the 37signals type business models; or said differently, they need to find a careful balance between free and premium accounts. Second, educators have to be partners and understand the economics behind running a web-based learning application. Developers have to have an open dialog about this on company blogs and in other circles, so that educators can be informed and understand the different dynamics. e.g., why it is helpful for people to purchase premium account, b/c it helps subsidize the free accounts.

]]> By: Kyle Mathews http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/11/when-the-lining-of-the-cloud-isnt-silver/comment-page-1/#comment-1062 Kyle Mathews Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:33:42 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=36#comment-1062 More students get shafted by Lively's closing:<br>"The Digiteen Dream Team, a group of passionate ninth graders who have been using Google's Lively as part of the Digiteen Project, are planning to protest this Wednesday against Google's decision to close down its virtual world environment, Lively, at the end of this year."<br><br><a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/twenty_9th_graders_from_georgi.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/twenty_9th...</a> More students get shafted by Lively's closing:
“The Digiteen Dream Team, a group of passionate ninth graders who have been using Google's Lively as part of the Digiteen Project, are planning to protest this Wednesday against Google's decision to close down its virtual world environment, Lively, at the end of this year.”

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/twenty_9th...

]]> By: jonmott http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/11/when-the-lining-of-the-cloud-isnt-silver/comment-page-1/#comment-1061 jonmott Tue, 25 Nov 2008 05:43:40 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=36#comment-1061 KABOOM. Nice. <br><br>We've said the same thing to our faculty about using any technology, including the university-provided instance of Blackboard--you can build a technology-enhanced or even completely online course, but you should always have contingency plans in place. It's just the smart thing to do. KABOOM. Nice.

We've said the same thing to our faculty about using any technology, including the university-provided instance of Blackboard–you can build a technology-enhanced or even completely online course, but you should always have contingency plans in place. It's just the smart thing to do.

]]> By: Tom’s Two Cents » Blog Archive » What Color Is Your LMS Parachute? http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/11/when-the-lining-of-the-cloud-isnt-silver/comment-page-1/#comment-298 Tom’s Two Cents » Blog Archive » What Color Is Your LMS Parachute? Tue, 25 Nov 2008 04:30:18 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=36#comment-298 [...] reblogging a comment I left on Jon Mott’s blog post about the demise of Lively, Google’s Second Life clone. While he focused on the need for [...] [...] reblogging a comment I left on Jon Mott’s blog post about the demise of Lively, Google’s Second Life clone. While he focused on the need for [...]

]]> By: tom4cam http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/11/when-the-lining-of-the-cloud-isnt-silver/comment-page-1/#comment-1060 tom4cam Tue, 25 Nov 2008 04:00:15 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=36#comment-1060 How about KABOOM (Keep A Backup or Other Options in Mind)?<br><br>Seriously, people have been painting themselves into corners ever since the invention of... um... paint. Whether you are talking about cloud-based apps or a Blackboard server nestled safely in your institution's server farm, you can still wind up stuck... either locked out or locked in. While parts of the cloud will likely blow away, new ones will likely take their place.<br><br>The real question is "Can you get in or out of where you currently are, and can you take your data with you?" Frankly, I would rather take my chances on being locked out of a few cloud apps than locked into a single, proprietary LMS. Interestingly, I'm working with a group on an IMS CC-Blackboard converter that should get around the import/export problem despite Bb's foot-dragging. Guess where it will live? In the cloud... with all those risky, new-fangled apps. :-) How about KABOOM (Keep A Backup or Other Options in Mind)?

Seriously, people have been painting themselves into corners ever since the invention of… um… paint. Whether you are talking about cloud-based apps or a Blackboard server nestled safely in your institution's server farm, you can still wind up stuck… either locked out or locked in. While parts of the cloud will likely blow away, new ones will likely take their place.

The real question is “Can you get in or out of where you currently are, and can you take your data with you?” Frankly, I would rather take my chances on being locked out of a few cloud apps than locked into a single, proprietary LMS. Interestingly, I'm working with a group on an IMS CC-Blackboard converter that should get around the import/export problem despite Bb's foot-dragging. Guess where it will live? In the cloud… with all those risky, new-fangled apps. :-)

]]> By: jonmott http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/11/when-the-lining-of-the-cloud-isnt-silver/comment-page-1/#comment-1059 jonmott Tue, 25 Nov 2008 01:29:21 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=36#comment-1059 Scott--good point. I'm not trying to steer people away from the cloud, just encouraging the forethought RE exit / integration you suggest. And each cloud app (and its relative importance) should be considered in light of the learning you hope it helps facilitate. And none of the above should be read to endorse heavy-iron, locally hosted, expensive, inflexible, proprietary software. I think I'm on record as being against such stuff. :-)<br><br>Another lesson one could draw from the demise of Lively is to rely on MULTIPLE cloud apps instead of one or two (which could each then be significant single points of failure). Just as "Lots Of Copies Keeps Stuff Safe" (LOCKSS) is the current mantra amongst librarians, perhaps learning technologists could adopts something like "Lots Of Cloud Apps Keeps Learning Alive". Too bad LOCAPLA doesn't mean anything cool . . . Scott–good point. I'm not trying to steer people away from the cloud, just encouraging the forethought RE exit / integration you suggest. And each cloud app (and its relative importance) should be considered in light of the learning you hope it helps facilitate. And none of the above should be read to endorse heavy-iron, locally hosted, expensive, inflexible, proprietary software. I think I'm on record as being against such stuff. :-)

Another lesson one could draw from the demise of Lively is to rely on MULTIPLE cloud apps instead of one or two (which could each then be significant single points of failure). Just as “Lots Of Copies Keeps Stuff Safe” (LOCKSS) is the current mantra amongst librarians, perhaps learning technologists could adopts something like “Lots Of Cloud Apps Keeps Learning Alive”. Too bad LOCAPLA doesn't mean anything cool . . .

]]> By: Scott Leslie http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/11/when-the-lining-of-the-cloud-isnt-silver/comment-page-1/#comment-1058 Scott Leslie Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:27:24 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=36#comment-1058 "but educational technologists run a decided risk when they rely on free cloud apps for mission critical teaching and learning functionality" - that is a FUD statement if I ever read one. Not that there doesn't exist such functionality, but what, SPECIFICALLY, does it mean. Defining that (and thus the related exit/integration strategies) is where this conversation needs to go, otherwise it remains in the realm of motherhood statements that will simple entrench and legitimize existing (ineffectual, un-innovative, dull, expensive...I could go on) approaches. </end of mini-rant> “but educational technologists run a decided risk when they rely on free cloud apps for mission critical teaching and learning functionality” – that is a FUD statement if I ever read one. Not that there doesn't exist such functionality, but what, SPECIFICALLY, does it mean. Defining that (and thus the related exit/integration strategies) is where this conversation needs to go, otherwise it remains in the realm of motherhood statements that will simple entrench and legitimize existing (ineffectual, un-innovative, dull, expensive…I could go on) approaches. </end of mini-rant>

]]> By: Jared Stein http://www.jonmott.com/blog/2008/11/when-the-lining-of-the-cloud-isnt-silver/comment-page-1/#comment-1057 Jared Stein Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:04:20 +0000 http://www.jonmott.com/blog/?p=36#comment-1057 I think there's potential for some of this to be distributed via locally hosted services, like a campus-wide WPMU installation--especially if the institution allowed alumni to keep their blogs for life!<br><br>Otherwise, your only assurance is in always having a way to back stuff up... I think there's potential for some of this to be distributed via locally hosted services, like a campus-wide WPMU installation–especially if the institution allowed alumni to keep their blogs for life!

Otherwise, your only assurance is in always having a way to back stuff up…

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